Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Mail and other feedback from listeners.
austexaviator
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:03 pm

Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Postby austexaviator » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:48 pm

Did you see the CNN story re: an airliner that attempted a crosswind landing and after touching first the left and then the right wing tips to the ground, had to do a go around and landed on a different runway. In the story they say the pilot is blaming ATC for giving him the runway, but you'd think a commercial airline pilot would not attempt a landing on a runway that was clearly beyond his max crosswind component. What do you guys think? Is that an ATC problem? I kind of have the feeling that if I failed to land my Cessna in a high crosswind that the NTSB wouldn't buy the idea that it was ATC's fault. I'm pretty sure the responsibility for a landing like that would fall to the PIC.

Here's the link to the story: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03 ... index.html

Richard Hacker

User avatar
mdpilots
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Montgomery County Airpark - KGAI

Re: Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Postby mdpilots » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:46 pm

Don't see how you could blame that on anyone but the Pilot In Command...at least in the US.

Punky
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Toronto Area, Ontario CNC3 / CYKZ / CYKF
Contact:

Re: Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Postby Punky » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:34 am

Ditto.
The guy who did my Navajo training is an Air Canada Captain - he has a very different take on ATC than the typical GA pilot. I wouldn't say it's adversarial in nature but it's definitely a case of him asserting that he's the boss calling the shots and it's up to ATC to make it work - and this is at the Toronto airport - the largest in the country.

Case in point - he was cleared to approach to a particular runway... I don't remember the particulars but it was a convenience thing for ATC. The Runway friction index was .29 and he wanted .3 (he flies a CRJ)... or some situation like that. Now he could have easily landed on that runway - lord knows it's big enough - but he recognized that it was late and night and the only reason he was getting that runway was something to do with a convenience thing with ATC. He called them up and said unable and requested a different runway (and got it). His explanation was "they're not the ones strapped in next to you; they're sitting in their comfortable chair up there in the tower."

He was explaining that even in that commercial environment they are constantly referring to the CFS (Canada's airport guide) because it's call all the charts for cross winds and runway friction index etc. etc. Just like a GA pilot they have to figure out the limitations of the aircraft and themselves when dealing with approach clearances. They don't have a magic computer that tells them - yes that runway is ok or not, they have to figure it out for themselves and advice ATC if it won't work for them.

The point being is the pilot in command, really is the one in command - and all the services that are available are there to serve us but it is the pilot who makes the final call.

Passing the buck to the ATC in this case might make sense to the general public, but I would hope there isn't a pilot out there wouldn't recognize this for the BS that it really is.

However - you still have to give the pilot some props - he did recover - do the overshoot and successfully land a second time. I've been caught off guard 50 feet from the runway everytime I've landed at Buttonville in Toronto (there's one runway that I always drop 25 feet after crossing the freeway before touchdown)... a less skilled pilot might have continued the landing attempt with disastrous results. This guy got back on the throttle and got the hell up.

I have to wonder though - I know he came around and landed successfully the second time - but was it on the same runway? If so; more evidence that his excuse just doesn't fly... if he knew it was the wrong runway why did he attempt it a second time?

User avatar
champguy
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Florence, (Coastal) Oregon

Re: Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Postby champguy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:13 pm

Big plane little plane-same same
if you want the upwind wheel to stick and hold you on the runway, you have to hold it on the runway.
in the video the pic let the wind get under his wing. Great on climbout, not in a cross wind.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
Image

LimaBravo
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan KAZO KBTL and KGRR

Re: Crosswind Airliner Landing in Germany

Postby LimaBravo » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:28 pm

I watch and learn from these all the time, you can see the good and the bad:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... arch_type=


Return to “Listener Mail”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests