English proficiency

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stonemanvideo
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English proficiency

Postby stonemanvideo » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:34 pm

Now I may have missed another thread on the topic but I thought I Would ask. All of this talk about being proficient in english to cross the border had me thinking. In order to get a private pilots license, don't you have to read, speak, write and understand the english language?
FAR 61.103 (c)
You guys probably know something on this topic or a different angle that I am missing.

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champguy
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Re: English proficiency

Postby champguy » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:36 am

You're asking if homeland security efforts make sense? Or are the steps taken simply things that can be done to give the appearance of action. You know, the first rule of a bureaucrat, CYA.
You know the best one of all? I love this one. They publish a map, updated constantly, available from anywhere, with a circle centered on the current location of our fearless leader. Helo, is anyone home in there.
I didn't mind till he came to Oregon and drove his damn motorcade down I-5 while I was trying to fly from the Coast up to the mountains. I'm supposed to dodge a moving target on I-5, in a Champ, while clawing for altitude over Eugene trying to clear McKenzie Pass through to Bend. I've got a handheld and no transponder, does flight following really want to talk to me, and do they actually know where he is anyway?
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
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t0r0nad0
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Re: English proficiency

Postby t0r0nad0 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:25 am

yes, you are required to be able to read, write, speak, and understand English to get your PPL. Apparently that wasn't good enough, now you need to have the words "English Proficient" printed on your little piece of plastic with Orville and Wilbur's pictures. That's only if you're going to be flying internationally, for domestic flights, you're fine without it.
-PJ

PP-ASEL as of 8/15/2007
AGI as of 6/30/2008
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States in which I have been the sole manipulator of the controls on takeoff and/or landing:
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champguy
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Re: English proficiency

Postby champguy » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:09 am

I think the real reason is because the new plastic laminated licenses are waterproof for over water operations. I don't even fly my champ in the rain, let alone over water so I shouldn't need one. But it might reassure my wife if I had a license in english proficiency because she speaks clearly all the time and I still don't get it.
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Dave Higdon
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Re: English proficiency

Postby Dave Higdon » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:00 pm

Cute guys...cute...

Truth English is the official language of International ATC...which was interesting because, when flying in Mexico, it was always interesting to hear controllers talk to Mexican pilots in Spanish, then switch to English to talk to me -- they weren't always easy to understand...

Conversely, the best, cleanest English I've ever heard from an ATC facility was when talking to Havana Center en route to Grand Cayman from Key West several years ago...

And in the airspace around the Wichita area, hearing heavily accented English is commonplace because of all the international aviators who come here to take delivery of an airplane or train for something -- PPL, Instrument, Commercial, ATP, transition to a different airplane, Type Rating...something.

The license endorsement is, in reality, to bring the U.S. into compliance with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) requirements for signatories to its standards...same requirement is being enforced on pilots overseas where it's a second language...they have to have the endorsement go fly internationally or in to use Eurocontrol, I believe...

Now, the plastic license...well, that is a DHS-inspired change...and for what it's worth, at least the change wasn't accompanied by the requirement for a DMV-type visit somewhere to get a photo taken for the new license...you've got a while to spend your two bucks on a replacement for your paper...and then you can frame the paper one...and the new plastic one will carry the English Proficient endorsement -- you don't even have to take a test...and a couple of American pilots I know should be relieved about that. ;)

stonemanvideo
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Location: Tulsa, Ok

Re: English proficiency

Postby stonemanvideo » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:15 pm

Dave, Thanks for the insight.
I am a private helicopter pilot in Tulsa, SO I don't plan on leaving the country anytime soon. But, I do know what you are saying about the broken english on the radio. Tulsa (Jones Riverside KRVS) is a big training airport. However, If I were to fly into an airport on one of the coasts, they would wonder where this redneck came from.
p.s. See you in Ponca in a couple of weeks?

Dustin

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PilotBillFromTexas
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Re: English proficiency

Postby PilotBillFromTexas » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:04 pm

Someone on the UCAP forum had posted a link to http://www.liveatc.net/ You can check out some international ATC there.

Tomcat was telling me about the differences between flying in the US versus Switzerland. So, just for grins I tuned into Zuerich ATC the other night.

I speak German. It seemed that when the Swiss controller was talking to a Swiss flight then she would greet them in a heavy Swiss-German accent that I could barely make out or not make out at all then they would switch to English. When a Lufthansa flight came on then she spoke more "hoch Deutsch" or regular German that I didn't have a problem with then over to English.

The controller's English was pretty good but I had a hard time understanding some of the pilots.

At the uncontrolled airport that I fly out of there are a few what I think are Indian student pilots that I have no idea what they are saying. When I hear their voices then I know enough to look around and find them visually to see what they're up to.

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champguy
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Re: English proficiency

Postby champguy » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:08 pm

I don't mind the two bucks, and as I speak clearly and have a float rating, the new waterproof certificate makes some sense. However controllers who have had too much coffee and rattle off instructions as if I knew in advance what they were going to say just don't get it. I fly a Champ, not a Lear Jet. A few weeks back I was cleared into Eugene while still about five miles out on base with another plane coming in from the east to land second. My wife could see him out the window. I had to put the nose down, firewall the puppy, and head for the numbers at close to 95 miles per hour, then fly about a mile down the runway befor slowing down to land at the first turn off and get out of the way. I think I will adopt a really slow Southern Drawl to see if that helps. How about "Yo, Tower, you see me yet" They just don't get me.
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Dave Higdon
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Re: English proficiency

Postby Dave Higdon » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:59 pm

stonemanvideo wrote:Dave, Thanks for the insight.
I am a private helicopter pilot in Tulsa, SO I don't plan on leaving the country anytime soon. But, I do know what you are saying about the broken english on the radio. Tulsa (Jones Riverside KRVS) is a big training airport. However, If I were to fly into an airport on one of the coasts, they would wonder where this redneck came from.
p.s. See you in Ponca in a couple of weeks?

Dustin


Prolly, some of those flying training traffic are out of the Wichita area...as for Ponca on April 5...<sigh>, that's the day before my departure for Lakeland...so as much as I'd like, unlikely -- knowing what my typical last-day-before-road-trip-start is like, well, I'll probably skip our usual CAF breakfast gathering and send my bride out for a sausage biscuit :cry:

Maybe in May...or July, when the first Saturday is the 5th 8-)

Miss having an airplane cause it made it so much easier than renting or bumming rides to PNC...so it goes...

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Madmax
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Re: English proficiency

Postby Madmax » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:28 am

Make no mistake about it, the primary reason ICAO instituted the requirement for the pilot to be proficient in English, is to ensure George W. Bush NEVER becomes a pilot.
Sum Ergo Cogito —


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