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Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:15 am
by champguy
In the last year we have had a combined car show/airport day with free rides, and a crunch time last chance fund raiser for a new Senior Center. Hopped a bunch of rides and raised just over $5,000. These types of events get people out to the field and let them see that it is part of the community.

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:02 pm
by PilotBillFromTexas
eaglepilot wrote:I may not use the community soccer field, or the arts theatre, but I’m glad I live in a community that has these amenities, even if I have to pay for them from my tax dollars. I think the diversity of interests enriches everyone.

That's a really good point. I have a swimming pool in my back yard yet I still support the town's public pool. If for no other reason than it helps my property values because it enhances the whole town.

Same subject different point, my kids used to like to go to the town pool because that's where their friends and other kids were hanging out during the summer. God knows the community needs a place for pilots to hang out. Think of the trouble we could cause if we didn't have airports?

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:20 pm
by Andrew B
Good God, If we didnt have ant GA airports to hang around at then that would certainly weaken if not destroy the GA community. Socialzing is how we thrive. Its sad that GA airports aren't being built, only destroyed. I try no to think too much about the future - it could get scary. ( What happened to Meigs Field in Chicago says it all )

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:37 pm
by Greg Bockelman
Where to begin. This is a pretty long missive. Some of it is rant, some not. Hopefully you all can take something from it.

I am just as incensed with the USA Today article as everyone else. I agree that the aviation SYSTEM we have includes everything aviation, not just the airlines. Each segment COMPLIMENTS each other, not necessarily COMPETES with each other. Although I do admit that does seem to happen. The article is very one sided and definitely slants towards the airlines.

I listened to the AOPA representative on Aero News Network’s podcast and it was very obvious that the USA Today reporter had no intentions of providing a balanced perspective. I think that the airline management, which is basically who the Air Transportation Association represents, needs to be taken to task for their part in this issue. It seems to me that they are the ones that are pushing this idea more than anybody. And I am pretty sure that the rank and file airline pilots don’t share the same view.

However, I do need to play the part of Devil’s Advocate on some of the issues Jeb and Dave brought up.

First off, let’s bring up the issue of taxes. Without taxes, the way the system is currently set up, the system would collapse because that is how it is funded. And like it or not, it is the end user that winds up paying those taxes, either directly or indirectly. Whether or not the airlines pay taxes on fuel is sort of irrelevant because they eventually pass on those costs to the passengers. ALL businesses do that in one way or another. But Jeb does have a point. Since the airlines are NOT paying taxes on that fuel, they really don’t have a reason to complain as much as they do.

One way to impress upon the airlines and the ATA just how valuable General Aviation is, is for one or two days EVERY General Aviation operation possible to use the major airline airports. Maybe if they see just how disruptive that would be to their operation they would change their tune about GA funding. Somehow I think not.

Next point. I am not quite sure I understood Jeb. He made it sound like we should just do away with the airlines and let General Aviation take care of the transportation needs. As far as I am concerned, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that GA can offer the same kind of transportation services for the same kind of prices that the airlines do. It is just not cost effective to move that many people via GA as we define GA. Yes, we can get from point A to point B without going through points C and D, but it is relatively expensive to do so.

Part of the reason we have the hub and spoke system we have now is because the airlines figured out they can haul more people and make more money going through a hub than going nonstop to any given destination. It is just an economic fact of life. And, unfortunately, some of the towns that used to have airline service don’t anymore because it isn’t economically feasible at this time to provide it. That is where a healthy General Aviation comes to play.

Now comes a particularly unpopular subject. Deregulation. Say what you will, it is MY opinion that most of the airline ailments are a direct result of deregulation. Instead of many airlines providing a choice for service, we have seen a gradual reduction in the number of airlines. Competition being the way it is, every airline wants to be the last one standing. They will cut prices to the point of self destruction in the hopes of outlasting the next guy. If that were to happen, what do you think would happen to airline prices? Quite frankly, I think some sort of re regulation would be a good thing, and it may even be inevitable if things keep going the way they have been. Or we could just let Lufthansa and KLM and Aeroflot come in and provide our airline services. THAT would be interesting.

For what it is worth, I am an airline pilot. BUT, I like to introduce myself as a General Aviation pilot that just happens to be an airline pilot, NOT an airline pilot that happens to be a General Aviation pilot. There is a difference. IF there is a disagreement between airlines and GA, I will come down on the side of GA. However, in a perfect world, and even in THIS world, we need to learn to get along with each other. We can’t get along WITHOUT each other.

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:35 pm
by Andrew B
Pilots are pilots and we all love the same thing so I believe even though we may have different views, were all the same and working towards a common goal, to promote and express our love of aviation.

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:34 am
by COFlyer
In your "I wanna fly a choppa" segment, one of the UCAP gang commented that going on a date with a chopper pilot should be safe, since he'd have both hands occupied flying --- wellllll, not always. I thought I remembered an incident a few years ago in CA, and - thanks to the magic of Google - found it: . Helo passengers beware!


Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:48 pm
by Andrew B
wow, never thought I would ever hear about that happening.

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:34 pm
by RigaRunner
I find it useful to compare aviation to road transport.

Airline travel has become a commodity, with price being the only difference between one airline and another. Scheduled airline travel is about as pleasant as taking the bus in any metropolitan area. It's cheap, it will get you there, but it will be slow, cramped, dirty and time consuming.

If you don't want to take public transportation, you can take your car. It is ready to go when you are, you can take your luggage or friends with you, and you can play the radio, recline your seat, or sing if you want.

The same is true for general aviation aircraft -- they leave when you are ready, are usually clean and more comfortable than the airlines, and you certainly don't have to deal with surly flight attendants or TSA minions.

Nobody is trying to abolish the personal automobile, at least not yet. Let those who can afford them keep their airplanes.

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:46 pm
by MaraSmith
I received a message on FB the other day. A friend told me they had heard part of my article on a podcast, which led me here. I am the writer of the article regarding the pilot who flew to Mulege after the hurricane. Thank you so much for the mention! The best part is that it led me here. I am an airline pilot (furloughed and strongly debating not going back) and a bunch of other aviation stuff (flight instructor, line service, aviation insurance broker, etc). This forum is great! I have taken some time to look around and realize I found a great group of very knowledgeable people.

Part II is coming soon. It will include pictures of what he saw and his flight story.

The goal of my column is multifaceted. The most important issue, to me, is bridging the gap between the public and the aviation community. Recently, I spoke with someone telling me they should close a local airport. Later it came out that a family member had been air rescued from a motor vehicle accident. When I mentioned that the helicopter that saved his loved one is based at that airport, it took the wind out of his sails.

I am always trying to come up with stories that will help me with my goal. I make it a point to post the positive about aviation, even when something negative has happened. The public tends to grab onto something, such as northwest's recent excursion, and use it to battle the entire field. I already see new ideas posted here. If you have a story to tell, let me know. The column is relatively new but growing quickly.

Thanks again and I am so glad to join you all!

Re: Episode #155 "Nuke 'Em Till They Glow"

Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:02 pm
by PilotBillFromTexas
Mara, great job! I just read your article for the first time just now.

A friend who is a nurse practitioner left her comfy life in North Carolina and went to El Paso, TX to learn spanish for a few months then spent a couple of years in Mexico volunteering her services. If I won the lottery and could do anything that I wanted then flying with the baja bush pilots or something similar would be at the top of my list.

Looking forward to part II.