Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

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Dave Higdon
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby Dave Higdon » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:14 pm

Have been on flights during which we stopped sunset and made it end later...and woke the Sun up before dawn and made it go to work earlier and longer...

Air-to-Air photo missions, most of the times...we'd climb steadily to hold a low sun angle far longer than we could holding any fixed altitude...and we started climbing really late and low....for the early risers, we launched about 25 minutes ahead of the morning glow and climbed to meet the sunlight and followed it down for about 30 minutes, trying to hold a steady sun angle and work a landscape changing in light texture below...stunning experiences, most of 'em...worth 'em in terms of the hours added to the days...kinda fun, though, making the sun rise in the west when it's ready to set down on the ground...

Dave

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PilotBillFromTexas
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby PilotBillFromTexas » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:03 pm

Cool. What kind of chase plane were you shooting out of?

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kb7m
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby kb7m » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:33 am

Jack,

I'm a little surprised that no one has razzed you about your use of "an electronic device" for your amazing video of the approach into National airport.

I think that this is a silly rule given the fact that any avionics on a commercial jet that may be susceptible to interference from a non-intentional radiator (i.e. transmitters) would never be FAA certified in the first place.

My question is this: Is this an explicit FAA rule, or air-carrier over reaction to some obscure rule?

I commonly allow my passengers to use digital cameras, video cameras, mp3 players etc. Is this a problem?

Keith

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kb7m
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby kb7m » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:48 am

I look forward to more discussion about purchasing aircraft. I too have struggled with the same questions as Jack. I can afford (and even justify) a 150 class plane, but often want to take more than one passenger. I also fly from high altitude fields (home field is 4600' msl, surrounding mountains are as high as 12,000' msl). With density altitudes in the summer approaching the rated ceiling of a stock 150 or even a stock 172, a 180+ hp 172 is kind of the minimum. But that stretches the budget too far. I've (for the time being) compromised by joining a club with a 172, a 182, and a Bonanza. It cost a bit to "buy in", but the fixed costs are shared with a bunch of other pilots, and the variable costs are kept pretty close to actual costs. With the exception that the plane isn't *always* available when I want it, this so far is a reasonable solution for me. It doesn't keep me from dreaming and perusing the for sale postings in various places. ;-)

Keith

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txpilot82
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby txpilot82 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:13 am

About electronic devices... I remember reading an aviation magazine a few years ago where the pilot of a Baron or Bananza (can't remember which) started receiving several alerts on his strike finder though the day was perfectly clear. He turned around and saw a passenger using a pocketpc. Pilot asked the passenger to turn off device and strikes stopped. Turned the device back on and it started again. They later found out the harness for the strike finder ran under that passengers seat. So ya I've heard of it happening but I wonder if the installation was per manufacturers directions. They may have used unshielded wire where they weren't supposed to.
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t0r0nad0
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby t0r0nad0 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:42 am

Hey guys, I also loved the conversation regarding the airplane purchase. I do not own an aircraft, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think that if the 150 is in good, sound condition and the price is right, then go for it! It's a good entry-level airplane to own, cheap to fly and cheap to maintain. It's a good way to get your feet wet. If it's equipped for IFR and you can just use it to get your IR and sell it, you're coming out ahead as the greatest cost of instruction is the aircraft rental. Then, after you've gotten used to ownership and want to spread your wings further, you can always sell it and get a larger airplane when it's a bit more financially feasible.

Or... and please forgive me for the shameless plug (feel free to edit this out of my post if deemed inappropriate)... The 1940 Air Terminal Museum at Hobby Airport in Houston is raffling off a beautifully restored 1958 Cessna 175 as a fundraiser. It's an excellent plane that was fully restored about 7 years ago. In the restoration it became fully IFR certified with a standard 6-pack of instruments, four-place intercom, and an all-leather interior with some nice custom details. She flies great (I just flew her yesterday)! Raffle tickets go for $50 each and we are selling no more than 2500 tickets total. The drawing will be next July or as soon as all tickets have been sold. You can find more information and see more pictures at http://www.1940airterminal.org. Give us a call at 713-454-1940 if you're interested in purchasing a ticket and we'll take your credit card over the phone and mail the ticket stub to you. Just tell them that PJ sent you :).

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States in which I have been the sole manipulator of the controls on takeoff and/or landing:
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Greg Bockelman
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby Greg Bockelman » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:41 pm

kb7m wrote:Jack,

I'm a little surprised that no one has razzed you about your use of "an electronic device" for your amazing video of the approach into National airport.

I think that this is a silly rule given the fact that any avionics on a commercial jet that may be susceptible to interference from a non-intentional radiator (i.e. transmitters) would never be FAA certified in the first place.

My question is this: Is this an explicit FAA rule, or air-carrier over reaction to some obscure rule?

I commonly allow my passengers to use digital cameras, video cameras, mp3 players etc. Is this a problem?

Keith


I had the same opinion as far as electronic devices go. But I finally got an explanation somewhere that actually made sense. Think of the fuselage of the airplane as a wave guide. The signal propagated by your electronic device will bounce around inside that fuselage because it cannot escape. That in and of itself is not necessarily bad. But combine that signal with your buddy who is operating a DIFFERENT device and that signal combines with the other signal in a way that cannot be fully predicted. And combine it with the signals of ten other people and you get a combined signal or signals that will do who knows what. So the solution is to prohibit the use during critical phases of flight. All in all, after hearing that explanation, I think it is a reasonable rule.

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kb7m
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby kb7m » Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:58 pm

Greg Bockelman wrote:I had the same opinion as far as electronic devices go. But I finally got an explanation somewhere that actually made sense. Think of the fuselage of the airplane as a wave guide. The signal propagated by your electronic device will bounce around inside that fuselage because it cannot escape. That in and of itself is not necessarily bad. But combine that signal with your buddy who is operating a DIFFERENT device and that signal combines with the other signal in a way that cannot be fully predicted. And combine it with the signals of ten other people and you get a combined signal or signals that will do who knows what. So the solution is to prohibit the use during critical phases of flight. All in all, after hearing that explanation, I think it is a reasonable rule.


Greg, You are absolutely correct about signals combining to create new and even more interesting signals, especially in an enclosed area. Given that one of the resulting signals could end up right smack on a VOR or ILS frequency, there is a chance, however slim, that some combination of devices could interfere with navigation equipment.

Regardless, I turn my stuff off when they tell me to. Better safe than sorry, and the last thing I want is to be the guy that caused the "sorry".

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rcigliano
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Re: Episode #156 "Going Haywire"

Postby rcigliano » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:37 pm

Jack

Thanks for the shout out for my new podcast. It is greatly appreciated. And you did get my name right, it is Rob.

I sensed you was having difficulty with the web site name. It is a mouthful. I guess I am following Will Hawkin's lead in naming podcasts. The names just roll off the tongue.
Rob
Private Pilot SEL
FRG
Tecnam Eaglet

@RobertCigliano on Twitter
The New Pilot PodBlog Podcast
@NewPilotPodBlog on Twitter
http://thenewpilotpodblog.com

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