Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

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Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby Marin » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:11 pm

Just finished the latest podcast and another great one at that. Jack if your looking for a plane you might try Barnstormers.com you can find any type of plane there and if you are looking for a kitfox you will find one there. Seen a few Highlanders there for sale too. Interesting thought on sport pilot and flying aerobatic. I have seen some one flying a kitfox doing some aerobatic flight on you tube.


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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby MerlinFAC » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:14 am

Re: LSA Acro and parachutes

As you figured out, there's no prohibition whatsoever against doing acro in an LSA or as a Sport Pilot, if you can do so within the operating limitations of the category and aircraft. In fact, the very first Pitts Special that Curtis Pitts built in 1945 was a very lightweight 55-hp plane that surely met the LSA specs. (The problem w/ an LSA Pitts, as we know the Pitts today, is in getting the stall speed down. Several folks are currently working on it.)

If you have a full-airframe parachute, you don't need personal parachutes to do acro legally. If you're flying solo, you don't (legally) need a chute either. I don't know whether or how the full-plane chutes have been tested for unusual attitude deployments... those rockets pull those suckers out really fast, and will supposedly go through fabric, thin fiberglass, plexiglass, etc. no problem I would think the worst case might be a structural failure that put a lot of structure in front of it... such as, say, a wing folding up and sitting on top of the parachute's "launch pad". I would think that it would be unlikely to have the airframe in most acro planes actually break in such a way as to separate the seat from the parachute attachments. I would think it's much more likely to break a flying surface, control surface, control linkage, or engine mount.

TRUE STORY (or, "Why you should ALWAYS wear a chute for doing aerobatics"): There was a guy who bought a well-known type of acro biplane a few years ago from someone in the Miami FL area. The new owner loved his new plane and flew it a lot. He did hard acro with a lot of negative-g maneuvers several times a week. His airport buddies pestered him about not wearing a parachute all the time. One day, 11 months after he bought the plane, he'd finally gotten sick and tired of all the pestering, and put his chute on just to get folks to shut up about it.

On his second flight with a chute, all was going well until, with no warning whatsoever, one of the lower wings broke clean in half... at the bottom of an outside loop, and at only a few hundred feet AGL. He instinctively pulled the latch on the harness and the negative g's threw him out of the plane. He was only in the air for a couple of moments before he hit the ground. His chute opened just in time to start to slow his fall, he only broke his ankle and hurt his back some and spent a couple days in the hospital. The plane, needless to say, was a total loss.

The cause of the accident was interesting, and became apparent rather quickly. This particular aircraft design is very popular, there are hundreds of them out there, and it has never had any in-flight structural failures due to a design problem. The original builder was known to be a good, qualified builder. As it turned out, upon examination of the wreckage it was clear that the wooden wing spars were completely eaten away by dry rot!

The previous owner had foolishly stored the airplane on the ramp outdoors for several years in south Florida (for those of you who've never been to Miami... think 10 months a year with 90+ degrees heat, nuclear sunshine, 90% humidity, and daily thunderstorms). The new owner lived in the desert in the western US, with very low humidity. Unfortunately, he never performed a thorough annual on his new plane... actually using the inspection holes in the wing surely would have seen the extensive damage to the spars. It was an absolute miracle it lasted as long as it did, especially doing the hard flying it did. Starting to wear the chute when he did must have been God's hand at work, how else could you explain that?

OK, I give up.. what does AMFFN stand for? The one thing I've figured out is, well, rather "adult" in nature :P


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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby Almestad » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:06 am

Enjoyed the episode! Also enjoyed the coverage from Sun N' Fun for a Swede back in Europe ;)
Just a small note on the polish accident, there where not four approaches. It was a language/translation mistake. Don't know if this information was avalible when you guys recorded the podcast...

"The phrase as it first appeared in the press was something like "they crashed after the fourth approach". Anyone familiar with the Russian terminology would instantly recognize the error: in Russian (and a few other languages, possibly in Polish as well) the final turn in an aerodrome circuit is called the fourth turn. So, the interviewee merely said they crashed on final"

My inital feeling is a typical accident caused by "getthereitis" and the "VIP-syndrome". And if that is the case, this isn't the first time high ranks have been trying to influence decisions made by the crew.

In August 2008, the pilot of Kaczyński's plane was pressured by the president when he refused to land in Tbilisi during the South Ossetian war between Georgia and Russia.[42][43] During that incident, the captain of the plane, Grzegorz Pietruczuk, was asked by the president's staff to change the flight plan and land in Tbilisi.[44] After consulting with the commander of his unit, the captain refused, justifying his decision by safety concerns. He was then visited in the cockpit by Kaczynski himself, who tried to convince him to change his mind. Kaczynski later told journalists that "the Polish officer should not be cowardly". Nevertheless, the pilot held his ground and the plane landed in Azerbaijan as planned. A few weeks after this incident the pilot of the plane was decorated by the defense minister for following correct procedures in this case and keeping the safety of his passengers utmost in his mind.[44] The pilot continued to fly the president's plane after the incident, even after Kaczynski expressed unhappiness with his performance during the flight to Tbilisi.[45] Grzegorz Hołdanowicz, a leading Polish defence analyst stated his belief that in Smolensk the pilot would have been under pressure to land, despite advice from air traffic control to the contrary.[43]

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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby Andrew B » Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:43 pm

I was browsing youtube today to come across this particular video. With UCAP 182 playing in the background I watch this aircraft vs. vehicle incident. Jeb's shoutout made me search it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcURmi2w ... re=related

Talk about an Off Field Landing huh?

(The commentator is just abnoxious... sorry!)

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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby ricknorcal » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:42 am

OK, I give up.. what does AMFFN stand for? The one thing I've figured out is, well, rather "adult" in nature

Had the same thought, Mike, and I think we're right: the suitable-for-posting version would be "Adios, my friends (for now)" ;)

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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby DJTorrente » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:44 pm

ricknorcal wrote:
OK, I give up.. what does AMFFN stand for? The one thing I've figured out is, well, rather "adult" in nature

Had the same thought, Mike, and I think we're right: the suitable-for-posting version would be "Adios, my friends (for now)" ;)

I'm sticking with "All My Friends Fly Mooneys", all evidence to the contrary be damned. :D
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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby champguy » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:42 am

You guys get all the fun, in the sun, even if it is a working spring break.
There must be other meds that could be taken off the prohibited list. Some prostate shrinkers also lower blood pressure, but why is lowering and controlling blood pressure such an issue.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.

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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby Dave Higdon » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:41 pm

champguy wrote:There must be other meds that could be taken off the prohibited list. Some prostate shrinkers also lower blood pressure, but why is lowering and controlling blood pressure such an issue.

Far as i know, champguy, all the available, proven blood-pressure meds are on the approved list; demonstrating that your blood pressure is "under control" is actually somewhat objective because the standard isn't 80/120...long as it's stable and below what's considered a dangerous level, most pilots with hypertension don't even get subjected to the special-issuance process -- they get approved right of, no special conditions, as long as they've been on the med long enough to demonstrate that it works without side effects.

And side effects -- or off-label use -- of something like a prostate med to control blood pressure is outside my knowledge area, but if the prostate meds are restricted it could be because it's still considered new...or, because it has other side effect the FAA isn't fond of...

As for the root question about why, because people with high blood pressure that's not controlled have a higher probability of suffering either a stroke or a heart attack...neither is something high on my list, let alone something I'd want to contemplate while PIC...


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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby lucaberta » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:25 pm

It was fun to listen to the podcast that I knew was done just as I was out visiting with friends in Tampa. In all fairness, I did go to Tampa for a few good reasons, the most important one is being away from home did allow Skype to work a whole lot better on the crummy Internet connection that Jeb has! So all the podcast listeners should be thanking me for not sucking bandwidth! :D :lol:

Nonetheless, even if I was some 70 miles away from the podcast studio (aka Jeb's office at his home), I noticed that a lot of things that I discussed and emailed the guys during my stay were used as source for discussion in the podcast. I am happy of that, and to this extent let me just say that Jack, Jeb and Dave are always very keen to receive input from all of us listeners, so do email them if you've got something interesting that you'd like to share with them, and use these forums too!

Goodnight from old Europe... missing the US of A a lot already! :(

Ciao, Luca
Luca Bertagnolio, CPL/ASEL/AMEL/ASES/IR

US States I've overflown or flown in:

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Re: Episode #182 "Jeb's Home for Wayward Pilots

Postby ruckin » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:56 am

That pesky volcano caused me to be stuck on the other side of the Atlantic for an extra week. No sun and no fun for me.


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