Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

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MerlinFAC
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Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby MerlinFAC » Tue May 11, 2010 5:16 pm

Re: Birdstrikes

I was flying with a friend years ago in his Cherokee 180. We were coming in to land on runway 8 at the Sebastian Municipal Airport (X26). On final as we were at about 700 feet, we saw a large bird circling up ahead, just slightly higher than us. We thought it was a turkey vulture, and we were only going about 70 mph so we figured it would just circle off to the side and there'd be no problem. Well, as luck would have it, the bird circled back faster than we thought, and we ended up with the thing about 30 feet above and 200 feet directly in front of us! Well, as some of you know, a startled bird usually dives, and this sucker folded up the wings and passed less than 10 feet off the right wingtip. Once we regained our composure, we looked at each other and said "was that what I think it was?" It was not a vulture, but an adult bald eagle! By the time we finished the rollout, we were laughing at the thought that we easily could have ended up not only having an NTSB report written about us, but get fined by the EPA and Fish & Wildlife as well for taking out an endangered species!

Here's the really interesting part... I had my camera with me and was holding it on the dash, and unconsciously hit the shutter right when the bird took aim at us and we thought we were about to have a bad day. It's not a great photo or anything, but it shows why you DON'T want to ever fly under a bird or flock of birds. This photo isn't Photoshopped except to adjust the contrast, you can see the propeller arc in front of the eagle. Distance to the bird is about 20 feet.

-Mike
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bald_eagle_of_doom.jpg
Bald Eagle of Doom attacking a Cherokee at X26, about 1998
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champguy
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby champguy » Tue May 11, 2010 10:03 pm

I count on the Champ being slow enough for the smarter birds to "see and avoid", but we seem to be seeing more and more large birds down in my flight levels these days. Went past a whole V formation of geese at about 3500 feet crossing the Coast Range about a week ago, fortunately they were flying with a purpose, not just milling around and getting in my way.
We have more than one Bald Eagle around that can frequently be seen cruising around over the farm at below 1000 feet. It is magnificent, but some how for our national bird to be chaseing off Turkey Vultures and chowing down on my neighbors dead cow, just doesn't seem quite the inspiring national simbol we all think of.
There is a summer updraft in front of our house and the buzzards can spend all afternoon cruising back and forth in the most gracefull display of airmanship.
I fly higher now, and hope to stay out of trouble.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
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eaglepilot
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby eaglepilot » Fri May 14, 2010 2:06 pm

Boy, Just when I thought I could listen to Jeb again-without hearing any ethnocentric remarks, he has to go off on Canada and ICAO. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism

First, to set the stage, we should get our facts in front of us, before we debate the issue. ICAO is an International organization, created in Chicago in 1944, as a specialized agency of the United Nations linked to the Economic and Social Council. While it is has since moved to Montreal, it is not a Canadian agency, just like the United Nations, while located in New York, is not a US agency. ICAO’s mandate, paraphrased is as follows:

Twenty four hours a day, 365 days of the year, an aeroplane takes off or lands every few seconds somewhere on the face of the earth. Every one of these flights is handled in the same, uniform manner, whether by air traffic control, airport authorities or pilots at the controls of their aircraft. Behind the scenes are millions of employees involved in manufacturing, maintenance and monitoring of the products and services required in the never-ending cycle of flights. In fact, modern aviation is one of the most complex systems of interaction between human beings and machines ever created.

This clock-work precision in procedures and systems is made possible by the existence of universally accepted standards known as Standards and Recommended Practices, or SARPs. SARPs cover all technical and operational aspects of international civil aviation, such as safety, personnel licensing, operation of aircraft, aerodromes, air traffic services, accident investigation and the environment. Without SARPs, our aviation system would be at best chaotic and at worst unsafe.”


The need for the English proficiency endorsement, while a small inconvenience, is a safety issue, especially when pilots are flying internationally. Furthermore, the international standard for METAR/TAF’s is also a safety issue, albeit inconvenient.

I fail to see how adopting these international rules deserves some reciprocity from Canada on the Sport Pilot Medical Issue. The U.S is unique, throughout the world, in it’s adaption of the self-declared medical. While Jeb’s example of flying throughout Europe without international complications may be valid with respect to the aircraft, you cannot fly in Europe without a medical signed off by a physician.

FYI, Canada changed the medical exam renewal terms, extending them to their current (both in the US and Canada) levels, some time before the US. If there is a good reason to change, Transport Canada is not hesitant to make the first move. Apparently, in the case of the Sport Pilot Self Declared Medical, Transport Canada (nor anyone else) is not yet convinced.

Reciprocity is a US political process (we know how well that works!), not a method for determining safety issues.

I don’t see how the FAA has bent over backwards (with these minor changes) to accommodate ICAO. Is the USA not part of the International Community-with a voice within ICAO?

While not a FAA issue, the onerous conditions required by Homeland Security with the eAPIS system to fly internationally between the US and Canada is truly a big deal. I know that most Americans do not fly into Canada, but if they did, they might appreciate what hoops pilots (and their passengers) have to jump through just to fly into/leave the good ol’ USA. Imagine, a country, where you have to apply to the authorities if you want to leave. It crosses the “freedom” line, from a free country, to one that is not free. Now that is an issue I think we both (Canadians/Americans) can agree on.

Makes METARs & sport pilot medicals a gnat sized problem by comparison.
Last edited by eaglepilot on Fri May 14, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lucaberta
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby lucaberta » Fri May 14, 2010 6:32 pm

Good to see I am not the first non-american to chip in into the discussion... :D

I have to agree with eaglepilot, sometimes the USA will need to catch up with the rest of the world when certain things happen, and it is inconvenient to do so most of the times, and people always remember the bad things and seldom the good things...

The METAR/TAF change was pushed as the old FT/SA reporting system was not fit to cover the whole spectrum of different units used to report weather parameters worldwide. Luckily the US were the only ones who did not use METAR and TAF, except for the international airports where both the FT/SA and METAR/TAF were generated. It just made sense to have the US become part of the standard, and it did not cost much, we did not even force you to use meters for visibility, c'mon! :D

Likewise, the class Alpha to Golf categories were used around the world, except in the USA. Mid september 1993 comes, away go TCAs and welcome class Bravo. My CPL checkride was just the first day of the new airspace classification, and the DPE of course went straight to the new airspace on the oral... of course since I was coming from Europe I was more than prepared on the topic, nothing new there for us europeans... ;)

Of course, the USA have all the latitude and power to do what they think it's best, but I believe that the FAA has always had a very pragmatic approach, sticking to their position when needed in spite of criticism coming from other CAAs worldwide. A good example for this is the fact tha there is no need for a medical to fly gliders in the US, not even a drivers license is needed. This is not the case in the ICAO world, as a medical is always needed for any ICAO mutually recognized certificate.

And this is why the Sport Pilot certificate is not valid in Canada. Sport Pilot is not an ICAO license, and moreover the US have diverged from ICAO in not needing a specific medical to fly an LSA aircraft. This is not the case in Canada, and thus Sport Pilots are not allowed in Canada.

On the other hand, LSA aircraft have been approved, as mentioned in the podcast, but only if there is at least a PPL at the controls.

Should Canada one day decide to have a license similar to Sport Pilot, with no need for a medical, maybe then a mutual agreement between US and Canada might become possible.

Ciao, Luca
Luca Bertagnolio, CPL/ASEL/AMEL/ASES/IR

US States I've overflown or flown in:
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jackhodgson
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby jackhodgson » Sat May 15, 2010 7:33 pm

Eaglepilot,

Thanks for the post. Some good things for us to think about there.

-- Jack

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eaglepilot
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby eaglepilot » Sun May 16, 2010 7:36 pm

Our Jack Hodgson,

A gentleman as always.

Eaglepilot (Brian)

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falcon124
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby falcon124 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:10 pm

Hi Guys,

Finally caught up with your episodes after my time in Indonesia :)

In #184 & #185 you referred to the guys flying the CTs around the world. WOW. Not sure if you're aware of two other charity flights going on from down here in Australia (yes, Jack was right, there are lots of these flights popping up everywhere :)

First up is Owen Zupp, a QANTAS 737 pilot who is flying a Jabiru 230 around Australia to raise money for the Royal Flying Doctor Service. The Jabiru is an Australian designed & built two seat aircraft that has very impressive performance & looks (they also make engines :) Owen is visiting sites of historical interest in Australia's rich aviation history. You can find out more (and make a donation :) by visiting his site:

http://www.thereandback.com.au


The second flight is being done by Ken Evers and Tim Pryce who are flying a Gippsland Aeronautics GA-8 Airvan around the world to raise money for malaria research. In addition to supporting a worthy cause, this is the first time an Australian designed & manufactured aircraft is being flown around the world. They're in the USA now having staged across the Pacific and will be heading down to Brazil, across to Africa and then through India, Asia, Papua New Guinea and home to Australia. You can find out more about their journey (and, of course, make a donation :) by visiting their site:

http://millionsagainstmalaria.com/


Definitely two worthy causes and we're all very proud of the efforts these guys are going to. It's also been amazing to watch the donations roll in and the sponsors step up to help, including donations of aircraft, equipment and services. Great stuff!

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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby gmarshall » Sat May 22, 2010 10:38 pm

I didn't see anyone mention the Recreational Pilot Permit up here in Canada.

Before Sport Pilot came out in the US, Canada got it's own 'Private Pilot Light' license in 1995.

"A Recreational Pilot Permit allows you to fly single-engine, single pilot non-high-performance aircraft in daytime, in Visual Flight Rules (VFR) weather conditions. You can fly aircraft designed to take up to 4 persons (although the Permit only allows you to carry a single passanger) and your flights must be conducted in Canada - International flights are strictly prohibited."

So anyone getting their RPP up here in Canada knows from the get go that they won't be using it to fly in other countries. Let's see what the interwebnets have to say about Sport Pilot:

The regs on Sport pilot SPECIFICALLY refer to it not being an ICAO License, and leave it to other countries to decide whether or not they should accept the Sport Pilot designation:
from: [url]http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.10.1.8
[/url]

"(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
....
(8) Outside the United States, unless you have prior authorization from the country in which you seek to operate. Your sport pilot certificate carries the limit “Holder does not meet ICAO requirements.”"


Given the nature of Recreational and Sport Pilot permits, to encourage 'sunny day' recreational flying, I don't really see the advantage in other countries allowing pilots with those permits to exercise those privileges in their airspace.

The demands of international flying, while not the same as say, multi or IFR flights are still definitely higher than your local hops around airports you're familiar with.

Cross border procedures, ADIZ airspace, differing circuit procedures (no 45 degree downwind entries in Canada!) etc. etc. etc. all mean that flying in another country demand a certain amount of attention and comfort with following procedures outside the norm.

While a Sport Pilot, or Recreational Pilot is still 'a genuine pilot' in my book, there's less opportunity for them to attain or retain proficiency in more crowded radio environments, navigate over unfamiliar terrain etc. etc.

While there are probably a bunch of pilots who have downgraded to the Sport Pilot category due to the lowered medical requirements who possess the experience and proficiency in the tasks related above, I don't think that it's a huge deal they can't fly all over the world outside of the ICAO recognized licensing and medical certification system.

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lucaberta
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby lucaberta » Sun May 23, 2010 3:10 pm

How many RPP are active in Canada, gmarshall, do you know?

There is a similar license in the FAA world too, but it never caught much attention, maybe it's the medical requirements that made it unattractive, who knows.

So here the $100 million question. Would a canadian RPP pilot like to go flying in the USA given the permission, maybe with an additional training for US-Canada differences administered by a CFI and logged accordingly? Would an US Sport Pilot like to go flying in Canada, provided that he/she has a valid medical and has received additional training for the US-Canada differences?

If the two answers are positive, then I would start to lobby AOPA and COPA to find if a mutual agreement between the FAA and Transport Canada is possible.

Maybe it's only wishful thinking, or maybe it's unnecessary as there are no pilots who would take advantage of this opportunity. But maybe it's worth a try.

Ciao, Luca
Luca Bertagnolio, CPL/ASEL/AMEL/ASES/IR

US States I've overflown or flown in:
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gmarshall
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Re: Episode #185 "It's Not Right"

Postby gmarshall » Sun May 23, 2010 5:51 pm

Luca, the 'privileges' description for the Recreational Pilot Permit specifically excludes international flight. I don't think requiring a higher degree of proficiency and training (in the form of a Private Pilot License) to do cross border flights is unreasonable. Upgrading from a Recreational Pilot Permit to a Private Pilot License is possible. The only additional cost versus just doing your PPL directly is the additional flight test. Even so, most people go straight for their PPL.

There are approximately 1200 Recreational Pilots in Canada, and around 27000 Private Pilots. There are around 100 RPPs granted per year, but the number of licenses in force isn't growing, many are moving on to the PPL. There's around 2500 Private licenses issued per year.

From: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... e-2303.htm

Given the number of people flying under that license, I can't help but think that the program missed the mark a little.

I don't have the time to look it up right now, but I get the feeling there's a *lot* more people flying under Sport Pilot in the US. (more than the 10:1 population ratio between the US and Canada, that is)

-Greg


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