Episode #195 "It's a Gas"

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ruckin
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Episode #195 "It's a Gas"

Postby ruckin » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:49 am

I was jealous of all the cool planes that Dave has flown. I am now also jealous of all the SIMs that you have "flown". So far all I have managed to do is sneak into a 777 full motion simulator for a couple of hours, and to play CFI for my son in a diamond DA42 sim.

Ruckin

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baswell
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Ditch the lead, worry about the oil later.

Postby baswell » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:34 pm

AVGAS is such a minute amount of all the fuel used in the world, making it "green" should not be our priority. Besides, bio fuel has its own big issue: where to grow all the freakin' crops?

Get out the lead but use hydrocarbons for now. (I already run my Rotax powered SportStar on 98-octane unleaded)

It's incredibly stupid that an industry which contributes relatively little to polution and for which it is the hardest to switch from oil is being pressured the most to do it.

The big white elephant in the emissions room is electricity generation, followed closely by road transport. Both are easily converted to low-emissions sources with technologies we have now and are affordable and practical.

That way we'll have enough oil to last aviation a long time until we can fuel aircraft from a different source. If we use up all the oil first driving our cars and then go looking for solutions, you'll be driving your electric car within no time at all. But you won't be flying to see you family acros the country any time soon.

mrdavedog
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Re: Episode #195 "It's a Gas"

Postby mrdavedog » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:46 am

baswell wrote:It's incredibly stupid that an industry which contributes relatively little to polution and for which it is the hardest to switch from oil is being pressured the most to do it.


I don't see the industry is being pressured to move to oil, it's just it happens that one alternative being developed by Swift is from renewable sources. Or at least was, according to Jack. Continental and Lycoming are both pushing unleaded versions of normal AVGAS. Also if I recall correctly, Dave mentioned a while back that one of the reasons AVGAS is more expensive that MOGAS is the the distribution system (which is shared between the two) has to be cleaned before and after 100LL is pumped through it. Instead the industry is being pushed to get lead out of their fuels. Lead, is a nasty, nasty substance and frankly the GA community should have moved off it it years ago as the auto industry did.

To me this leaves the aviation community with two options.

1) Shadow MOGAS and come up with a UL version of AVGAS; one that won't require the pipelines to be cleaned pre and post use. This would, I'd imagine, keep costs down unless the Oil companies keep savings as profits.

2) Since the fuel distribution system already has to be cleaned when AVGAS passes through it, find some "green" alternative. In the long run renewable fuel sources will be cheaper. Plus the it would be a nice PR selling point for GA.

I believe the main difficulty with the switch off 100LL is the fact that your typical GA engine is designed to specifically operate synergistically with the lead in AVGAS.

randyc
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Re: Episode #195 "It's a Gas"

Postby randyc » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:32 am

Movie Reference - Always (1989); Spielberg's remake of "A Guy Named Joe".

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champguy
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Re: Episode #195 "It's a Gas"

Postby champguy » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:22 pm

When you get past all the hype and special interest greed, oil is cheap and plentiful and will remain so for years to come. Sure, get the lead out, and keep developing alternitives. When one comes along that will get us from point A to point B cheaper, we will all be clamoring to switch.
Till then, enjoy the good times we have now.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
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