Episode #252 "Avalanche"

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Sven
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Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby Sven » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:12 pm

Hooray, a new episode! I was starting to have to listen to the Pilotcast. ;)
Flying a Mooney M20D. One of only 3 fixed-gear Mooney aircraft still flying.

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jarheadpilot82
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby jarheadpilot82 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Talking about poor Mr. Trump only being able to afford a narrow-body 7575 in these tough times, I came across these signs of a bad economy, and I thought that you would enjoy them-

The economy is so bad that. . .

I got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.
CEO’s are now playing miniature golf.
Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 congressmen.
Angelina Jolie adopted a child from America.
Motel 6 won’t leave the light on anymore.
A picture is now worth only 200 words.
They renamed Wall Street Wal-Mart Street.
Semper Fi,

Terry Hand
Athens, GA

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eaglepilot
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby eaglepilot » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:55 pm

Hi Guys,

Good to hear you again.

To comment on the fact that we may see drones sharing the skies, perhaps we should start a new meme that the U.S. Government (Military) is trying to introduce unreliable and "hackable" robot drones into the same airspace occupied by airliners full of grandparents, parents and children all travelling to meet their loved ones.

Or have I gotten the story wrong ;)

Most people will not care about the drones sharing airspace with general aviation, but they will care about drones sharing space with airliners.

DJTorrente
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby DJTorrente » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:26 pm

The AcroCamp 2 debrief (and the title it spawned) were great. Though I think the backup title running a real close second was Dave's "The Rest of Us Are Gonna Be Like Fish". Who knew that verb even HAD a past pluperfect subjunctive tense? :lol:
"Good Rock... Welcome to Oshkosh"
AirVenture 2019: July 22-28 http://www.airventure.org

Like they say in baseball, there's always next year.

-DJTorrente

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Soccer-Jock
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Aero or Acro?

Postby Soccer-Jock » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:38 am

I'm going to step out on a limb here that is likely to break on me... but what the hell!
Guys, each of you are well established writers... please tell me the difference between "Aero-" and "Acro-"?
I know the FAA officially states the words are "interchangeable" with regard to maneuvers and aircraft.

Several years ago a grumpy old pilot once corrected me by saying that "Acrobats swing from wires, Aerobats fly airplanes." Crotchety as he was, who was I to argue?
Would you please shed some light on this pointless piece of trivia? :D

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jackhodgson
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby jackhodgson » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:04 am

Soccer-Jock,

You've been talking to Jim G haven't you? :-)

I'll see if I can get Tupper to explain this to us, but as I understand it. "Aerobatic" flying is never intended to be referred to as "Acrobatic" flight. It's just "Acro". A casual nickname.

// Jack

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StephenForce
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby StephenForce » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Hi, Guys:

I haven't posted here in a looooong time, but I apparently still have the cookie on my machine because the board seems to recognize me.

Okay: "Acro" vs. "Aero."

Aerobatic pilots (and romanticizers of aerobatics in text, audio, and visual media such as your humble correspondent) need a shorthand word by which to refer to aerobatics. With me so far? When we describe what we do formally, we say "aerobatics." We never say "acrobatics" (which, to my mind, refers to activities that are generally performed without the use of aircraft and are therefore necessarily inferior in the pantheon of human endeavor). Have I fully identified the seeds of that which keeps Jim G up at night twisting his nightcap in frustration? Right. So, with that bag of givens in hand, off we go looking for a short form.

I think that we'd all be happy to just shorten it to the first two syllables. But, frustratingly, "aero" doesn't identify what we do specifically. It's just a prefix that could be nailed onto the front of words that, although involving flying or attempts thereat, describe actifities and things are less cool than aerobatics. Further, "aero," when spoken, is indistinguishable from "arrow." Which is both ambuguous and also harkens to archery, which, although involving objects in ballistic flight, is nowhere near as cool as aerobatics.

As a general matter, those who wish to identify things that are acrobatic (in the Mary Lou Retton sense) do not use the term "acro." They speak either of "gymnastics" generally or skip straight to specifics, such as "tumbling" or "floor."

Thus, we practitioners of the art of energy (and lunch) management find ourselves (a) with no proper abbreviated slang term, but (b) within easy strolling distance of this other term that is generally not being used by those with the perhaps linquistically superior claim. So, somewhere in the mists of time, someone just started using the term "acro."

I suffered from the same issues that beguile Jim and sought a way to reconcile them. FOD and I ran into Jeb and Jack standing around near one of the benches outside an Oshkosh exhibit hangar at AirVenture 2009. Jeb used the term"acro" with such authority and crispness that I simply gave up trying to reconcile the terms and began simply using the term.

Additionally, later that year, I found myself in search of a title for a film project that involved a camp-like vibe in connection with which the use of the word "camp" would naturally be a helpful thing. "Acro" has the short-"a" alliteration that goes with "camp" like peanut butter and jelly or Jeremiah Weed and Jack Hodgson. Thus, my lack of willingness to search further for a name for the film has committed me to "acro."

And, rationalizations aside, we pilots have appropriated the term. It is ours. Might makes right. Do you really think that the likes of Kerri Strug could successfully prosecute an effort to take it back? Harumpf! (I pray only that Mary Lou Retton doesn't want it back. I have an - er - weakness. There's a list, see. Check out Friends episode 3.05: "The One with Frank Jr." and you'll understand. Winona Ryder's on there, too.)

So "acro" it is. That's my story.

- Dogbag

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jackhodgson
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby jackhodgson » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:44 am

Ah, so it's Jeb's fault.

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Soccer-Jock
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby Soccer-Jock » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:11 am

Ah, speak with authority and conviction and it makes you right. Well I certainly agree this tends to work with some politicians, or at least they think so. :D
I like the simple answer: It's Jeb's fault.
For me "acro-" tends to conjure images of the Flying Wallendas. Indeed Webster's dictionary makes reference to "acro-" as relating to height or, oddly, distance. By contrast they reference "aero-" to control of air. Aerodynamic, Aeronautical. Since both apply maybe the FAA was right! God, did I just actually say that??

OK - this horse is DEAD! Thanks for the fun trivia Stephen, et al.
The movie sounds like it is going to be awesome. Acro it is. Best Wishes!

Jeb
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Re: Episode #252 "Avalanche"

Postby Jeb » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:23 am

I woke up this morning rubbing my ears. They were really warm, and I couldn't figure out why. Now I understand...

This thread combines two things I find attractive. The first is a detailed, multi-syllabic discourse exploring the etymology of words we use in aviation. The second is giving me credit for something. Thank you, Steve, for both.

---

More seriously, I actually think Steve nailed it with his description of the ways the two words are used. I don't know when/where I picked up using "acro" as shorthand for "aerobatics" -- probably from hanging around with people for whom finding an artificial horizon in a panel is rare. It certainly has nothing to do with my exposure to or expertise with aerobatic flight.

I look forward to many more similar threads in these forums (e.g., those in which I get credit).

Shiny side up for landing, please...

J


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