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Postby champguy » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:58 pm

See And Avoid. Great concept.
So two planes collide. This is a bad thing.
Both were flown by FAA and NTSB pilots, just maybe they weren't looking out the window to, get this, See and Avoid.
So a new device in the cockpit, on the panel is going to help?
They already weren't looking outside!
Just maybe the solution is not more "tech" but rather less.
Hear this.
All flat screens should go blank as distractions from the primary responsibility to "See and Avoid" as the plane comes within a certain distance of the airport.
Realize this is just Champguy speaking, but maybe more HiTec is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.

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Re: Ep#333

Postby cozy171bh » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:53 pm

I have not heard this episode yet, but will this week on my commute to work. I agree completely with see-and-avoid. I also recognize that a mix of dissimilar aircraft types in the terminal area complicates see-and-avoid. The reality of our transport category cockpit is that limited cockpit visibility (unlike the canopy on my Co-Z), compounded with atmospheric conditions and the airspeed delta between aircraft types makes self-separation challenging. For this reason, TCAS is a terrific see-and-avoid resource. It helps us know where to look, at least for transponder-equipped aircraft. It is a third set of eyes, if you will, in our cockpit. I just investigated an event for our airline where an Extra 300 performed an aggressive vertical maneuver beginning at 1500 feet above our aircraft and within seconds passed within 1/2 NM and 100 feet. The crew was, in fact, scanning for traffic and saw other targets, but did not see the Extra until after the TCAS issued an RA. The crew responded to the RA and the TCAS saved the day....Both visual scanning and technology aid our efforts to avoid a mid-air.

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Postby Biggles71 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:34 pm


Not sure if I agree with Jebb's statement with regards to Go Arounds and Missed approaches...I do realise it is a very controversial subject.
As an A 380 captain I literary fly around the world (including the US) and get to see a lot of differences.

First let me share what I believe are the correct definitions:
GO AROUND: is the order given by ATC or by the crew of the aircraft. It is also the manoeuvre executed by the crew of aircraft when a full stop landing can not be made. This is laid out in the aircraft FCOM or POH.
MISSED APPROACH: The lateral and vertical routing to be flown when an instrument approach can not be completed to a landing. If ATC want something different they need to tell the crew before passing the Final Approach Fix (Point).
BALKED LANDING: Same as Missed approach but details what needs to be done if a GO-AROUND is flown below Decision Height or Minimum descent altitude. This includes if a Go-Around is flown after runway contact. Few airports have this procedure laid out, Nice France being one of them.

ICAO procedures clearly say that if an aircraft is on a IFR flight plan, that one should fly the published missed approach procedure, even in VMC (not VFR as stated). Except if ATC tells you different. There really is no difference with regards to Missed approaches being in IMC or VMC.

Two exceptions;

First is when one does a visual approach. In this case the PIC should coordinate with ATC how they want the Missed approach to be flown. Some airports include it in their ATIS, e.g. "In case of Missed approach after visual approach, climb runway HDG climb 2000ft" . This is however rarely done...

Second in the case of a Circle to land; the PIC should fly the published missed approach for the Instrument approach that was initially flown. e,g, if Circle to land on runway 22 after ILS 04, one should fly the Missed approach for ILS04 if a Go-around needs to be flown.

To summarize, ATC should expect the aircraft to fly the published IFR missed approach, be it because the crew is not visual due to weather conditions or have to do a go-Around for any other condition, even in CAVOK weather! If ATC want the crew to fly a different approach, they have to advise the crew before passing the Final Approach Fix.

Under the good old Fly Navigate, Communicate, as an instructor, I train my fellow airline pilots to make sure one and two is fully covered, before even keying that mike. ATC should be ready for a missed approach at any time, even if they do not occur that regularly!

I'm not aware about any specific differences in the US, but of course I stand ready to be corrected by a reference to the US FAR's.

Fly safe,
Last edited by Biggles71 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ep#333- Collisions with Animals

Postby DaveA » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:49 pm

Back in 1971 two friends of mine were flying via Bonanza from CLT to a farm/ranch airport southeast of RDU. I refreshed my memory by looking at the accident report and it helped me recall that this occurred 11/30 at about 1815 local; a bit past sundown.

The pilot was taking our friend/part-time boss from his airline connection back to this farm strip near his home this Tuesday evening. "B" lined up on final with the landing lights on (strip wasn't lighted, but it was visible in the twilight and near full moon- not the first trip there, either). As "B" came back on the power and flared, who should "B" encounter as the lights rolled up the runway? Several Black Angus cows (Key word here: black) contentedly standing around on the runway, dead ahead. There was no time to 'mash the gas'- all "B" could do was go for the open hole and hang on- wacked one with the left wing and two a split second later with the right- one close to the wing root, causing a high speed ground loop to the right, and the gear failed at that point. Casualties: 1 A35 Bonanza ("B"'s beloved airplane that I rode to Oshkosh in that prior July) and 3 head of cattle. No injuries to either human- but if "B" could have had access to a rifle, I suspect the rest of that herd would have been jerky and burgers, too.

The rancher's sons were tasked with rounding up the herd and driving them to the barn each evening...I guess they forgot...
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Re: Ep#333

Postby jackhodgson » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:59 am



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Re: Ep#333

Postby champguy » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:07 am

We have a taller fence now, but folks landing at Florence Muni in the dark often do a low pass first to clear the runway. Annoying, but you never know what might have wandered out there to stand on the warm pavement.
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