Episode #140 "Air America"

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DJTorrente
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Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby DJTorrente » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:40 pm

Just watched Jeb's video --

MY EYES!!! IT BURNS!!!

(somebody had to say it :lol: )

Seriously, 300 lbs. of hold doesn't seem all that great considering a 172 wing will lift 2,300 lbs w/ 45 kts.
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champguy
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby champguy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:43 am

I've been using "fly ties" and just bought two "claws" cause I thought what I had was too whimpy. Seeing them all pull out of that loose Florida soil so easily is not what I needed to feel better.
So now I have to carry a shovel and a sack of concrete?
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jackhodgson
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby jackhodgson » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:42 am

As I understand it, the amount of force that a tiedown needs to resist is far less than the lift capacity of the wings.

Most wind will not be coming from the ideal direction for generating any lift, and when it does, the angle of attack is likely wrong for getting good lift.

I've been told that more important than strength in tiedowns is tension. You want to avoid flutter of the aircraft.

-- Jack

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Scofreyjet
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby Scofreyjet » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:13 pm

By coincidence, I listened to the latest UCAP Episode (#140) this afternoon after having just listened to the latest Student Pilot Cast Episode (#26) this morning, and both podcasts referred to: 1) Air America 2) Evergreen Aviation 3)the DreamLifter.

Bill Williams of the Student Pilot Cast was describing a flight taken some time ago, over Pinal Airpark in Arizona.

Apparently this is a former CIA airfield (now public/GA) that is heavily used by Evergreen for maintenance and aircraft storage. (see the link above). In UCAP 140, there was musing about possible connections between the CIA, Air America, and Evergreen. Hmmm.... :twisted:

Anyway, Bill also recounted having seen the DreamLifter parked there during an overflight as well. Small world!
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cozy171bh
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby cozy171bh » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:53 pm

UCAP Gang,

Just listened to episodes 139 and 140 this afternoon while cleaning up the hangar. As always, great job, you make the chore of hangar cleaning enjoyable!

First, FedEX (not Evergreen) purchased the Flying Tiger Line in 1989. That's how FedEX gained the Pacific Rim market.

Second, there's a reason that navigation solely by GPS over the North Atlantic is not common. Before my recent furlough from a major cargo operator as a 767 F.O., I received my qualification in North Atlantic Minimum Navigational Performance Specification (MNPS) airspace operations, which is some of the busiest and most procedurally complex airspace on the planet. The purpose is to ensure lateral and longitudinal separation of aircraft over the Atlantic when not in radar contact (which is line-of-sight and looses aircraft cruising over the horizon). Even with HF communications, aircraft are not in direct, real-time control of an ATC facility. Aircraft entering the North Atlantic Track (NAT) system (the coordinates of which change daily due to weather and other considerations) must maintain specific speed, altitude, and position reporting requirements. I'll spare you the details of the 129 page procedure manual, but the problems with modernizing to GPS are not unlike the problem of adopting ADSB. The technology is there, but we need leadership and the will of the governing authorities to make GPS MNPS operations a reality. For the safe operation of MNPS airspace, everyone has to be on the same page. Being on the same page means that all aircraft must meet the same equipment standards and be able to navigate to an equal degree of precision. Not everyone has GPS. Until it is mandated, we're stuck with the current system. So basically, the ICAO nations need to get together and make the commitment to doing this, which will involve testing, rewriting the MNPS manual, and phasing in the operation. There may be other issues of which I am unaware, but the key issue is that the MNPS airspace is more complex than people realize -- right now you can't just push the direct to button and go to London.

Brian....

Greg Bockelman
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby Greg Bockelman » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:33 pm

cozy171bh wrote:Second, there's a reason that navigation solely by GPS over the North Atlantic is not common...


Hmm. Seemed like it to me.

For the safe operation of MNPS airspace, everyone has to be on the same page. Being on the same page means that all aircraft must meet the same equipment standards and be able to navigate to an equal degree of precision.


I submit that that would mean the same MINIMUM standards.

Not everyone has GPS. Until it is mandated, we're stuck with the current system.


Refresh my memory. Just what exactly IS that system?

Our navigation system was the flight management system and it gets its information from the GPS unless there are no satellites in sight, or it is out of service, which never happens. Then it would revert to the INS, but I don't see where GPS navigation is prohibited.

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cozy171bh
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby cozy171bh » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:47 pm

[/quote]Our navigation system was the flight management system and it gets its information from the GPS unless there are no satellites in sight, or it is out of service, which never happens. Then it would revert to the INS, but I don't see where GPS navigation is prohibited.[/quote]

Thanks Greg. You raise a good point. My point is that the FMS is commanding the autopilot to fly to the Lat/Long coordinates designated by the track message. (I tried to avoid the jargon in my first post.) Being assigned to a specific track, mach number, and altitude is less efficient than a more direct great circle route from the departure to destination which bypasses oceanic entry and exit points. Also, the FMS receives position information from the INSs (or IRSs, depending upon manufacturer lingo), and the FMS uses GPS to apply a correction vector in its position solution. And for those older systems without GPS inputs, which some carriers still use, DME/DME updating is used until line-of-sight is lost offshore and it reverts to INS nav only. That all said, whether one is navigating with INS or GPS, we are still flying from one Lat/Long to another, confined to the assigned track, mach number and altitude designated in the oceanic clearance.

The problem is that for the time and fuel saving efficiency of "free flight" across the Atlantic via GPS great circle routing to occur (which is the concept I suspect was being tested by the operator in the news story), new minimum equipment standards need to be mandated. This requires action by the ICAO member countries. Also, new rules need to be in place to ensure aircraft separation outside of ATC radar. Maybe this is where ADSB can be applied.

Thanks again. Have you heard about any efforts to bring North Atlantic operations into the 21st century?

Brian....

Greg Bockelman
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Re: Episode #140 "Air America"

Postby Greg Bockelman » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:59 pm

cozy171bh wrote:Thanks again. Have you heard about any efforts to bring North Atlantic operations into the 21st century?

Brian....


I am going to treat that as a rhetorical question since DOMESTIC navigation and ATC hasn't been brought into the 21st Century yet. Until then, the best you can do is a random route clearance and that still takes you to cardinal Lat/Longs.


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