Episode #150-"Three"

A place to post misc. feedback to individual eps.
Forum rules
We'd love to have you Reply to posts in this Forum, but please don't create new Topics here. One exception: If we haven't created a thread for a particular episode, feel free to get it started. For other subjects, I suggest creating new Topics in Virtual Hangar=>Other Topics. Thanks.
kbob
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:50 pm
Location: KDVO

Episode #150-"Three"

Postby kbob » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:21 pm

Hearing Jack, Jeb and Dave once again bemoan declining student starts (echoing one fo the topics covred in the inaugural UCAP episode 3 years ago), I pulled out an article written by the late (and great) Gordon Baxter entitled "The New Boy". Here's a line from the first paragraph:

"Convinced that the lack of new starts in student flying had its beginnings in the apathy and closed-club attitude of the average FBO to the outsider.."

The column goes on to describe several episodes in which Bax sought out an introductory flight, with varying degrees of frustration . This particular column was originally published in early 1980. Depressingly familiar that this attitude still seems to be the norm. Do you think it's always been this way?

kbob

User avatar
PilotBillFromTexas
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:10 am
Location: KGPM Grand Prairie, Texas

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby PilotBillFromTexas » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:52 pm

I haven't heard #150 yet. But, in my area it seems that some of the crusty FBOs folded in this last financial crisis. The pilot-mill flight schools are still around and the ones with newer equipment and a fresher attitude seem to be keeping their head above water. One of them has a fan page on facebook. A few others arrange social events like barbecues to invite people in.

I never understood that old school attitude. They certainly didn't make you feel like you were the customer. I wonder if the fact that so many of the old flight schools were run by ex-military folks rather than folks with any kind of retail sales experience might have had something to do with it. Maybe the flight school operators of tomorrow are the burger servers of today?

User avatar
champguy
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Florence, (Coastal) Oregon

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby champguy » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:42 pm

On the "old boy" attitude at FBOs, trying to put the best possible light on it, maybe it is like hazing in frat boy initiations, trying to weed out those who won't conform to the culture.
The culture is important. Thinking safety, and having respect for those who have gone before us, and learning from the mistakes they have made, that is humbling.
But leading by intimidation is a bunch of crap. The kids I know have a level of maturity I wish I'd had, and deserve nothing but the most positive and open, forward going support we can give.
I flew into Hillsboro, Portland, Oregon, yesterday where there is one of those "puppy mills", and the tower was handling left and right traffic, while clearing me and the Cessna behind me for straight in, all on same runway. One kid who couldn't even speak English was getting told to go out and line up on the down wind for the runway we were using as the other runway had an X on it. Not just a painted X, but a lighted twenty foot tall X.
Everyone, from the tower, to the students, to us coming in, was taking it all in stride and putting that runway to a level of use seldom seen outside of an airshow arrival. It was a great show, and those students were getting an education in an atmosphere of respect.
But I'm an optimist, and all is well with the world.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
Image

User avatar
PilotBillFromTexas
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:10 am
Location: KGPM Grand Prairie, Texas

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby PilotBillFromTexas » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:07 am

That's a really interesting point about instilling the importance of a culture of safety and respect. I have to chew on that one for a while.

User avatar
champguy
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:37 pm
Location: Florence, (Coastal) Oregon

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby champguy » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:09 pm

Had a lovely drive to Eugene today, our nearest "city", and for the record the episode was exactly the right length, down town to down town, perfect.
They sure did make a mess of that New Standard, music or no, what a damn shame.
I was at Old Rhinebeck last year and loved every minute of the time I was there. Glad I wasn't there the next day when some guy screwed up and "went west" as the saying goes.
I rode in one of the remaining New Standards at OSH about six years ago and had a wonderful ride. The next day it had a sucessful "off field" landing. I guess you just have to stay one step ahead of these things.
There are some things from the past that are just too good to let go of, and Old Rhinebeck and the New Standard are two of them. I know, it isn't sensable, but floating over the countryside with the wind in your face behind a raspy old radial, just brings you closer to God.
Remember, not all who wander, are lost.
Image

User avatar
Scofreyjet
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:13 pm
Location: Billerica, MA/KBED

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby Scofreyjet » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:41 pm

To the doubts expressed in the podcast about flying the New Standard at Rhinebeck - Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome has never had much extra money, and selling rides in that plane and the one that preceded it probably produced some extra income that went into maintaining the rest of the collection. I imagine it was a calculated risk that had paid off for quite a while, until... :(

Image
Jeff Ward
I love things with wings!
Scofreyjet on Twitter

JHWellington
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:11 pm
Location: White Plains, NY KHPN
Contact:

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby JHWellington » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:53 am

Let's not forget the most important topic discussed in episode 150 -- UCAP's third anniversary. CONGRATULATIONS JACK, JEB & DAVE! I've enjoyed every episode and the forums have been a great addition. You guys should be very proud of what you've done: 150 informative episodes on aviation, inspired many to start or complete their training, and you've created a community of aviation enthusiasts that is truly worldwide.

To all my fellow listeners, let's hit the tip jar HARD and let these guys know we appreciate the work they do. Remember, it doesn't have to be much -- $5 or $10 from everyone will go a long way.

John
_____________________________________________
John (KHPN) Trinidad TB-20 N242GT
jhwellington on Twitter

Dave Higdon
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby Dave Higdon » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:38 am

Thanks, JH...what makes me smile is knowing you folks are out there listening and appreciating...and participating and aviating...

To be a part of all this with all of you is an honor...thanks to all for three great, fun, craaaazy years ;) !

Dave

User avatar
pilottony
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:24 pm
Location: theodore alabama (5r7 roy e ray) south of mobile.

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby pilottony » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:23 pm

I would like to second what JH said and say thanks for 150 fun, educational,and inspiring episodes. I gave JOHN MOHR a list of podcast that i listen to, and UCAP was # 1 on the list! DAVE you probably know who JOHN MOHR is, for everybody else, he is the guy at the airshows that flyies the blue and yellow stock stearman. he makes it do what it aint suppost to do! buy the way, thanks for turning me on to the leinnes as well. TONY

Cavebear42
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:56 pm
Location: All Over California

Re: Episode #150-"Three"

Postby Cavebear42 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:53 pm

Happy 3rd Birthday! I love listening to you guys but don't always follow up here. But this time I have a few comments. :)

On student starts: On the day I started training, I had never been on a plane nor did I know a single pilot. I just decided that I wanted to do it and, if somehow this is possible, I will go an learn how. Imagine someone in this situation. The airport is on the edge of town, way out of the way. I drive out there alone and very unsure of this whole endeavor. The whole thing is surrounded in 10 foot chained link with barbed wire. There are a dozen gates with really descriptive labels like "Gate 6B". Of course, they are locked and you need a keypad code to enter. Finally, I find a gate which is open (not sure if someone forgot to close it or not). I drive pass the large white sign which says in red letters "No Trespassing" and the small green one which says in white "learn to fly here." After a drive down what I think is a road (wondering if there are planes coming down on me at any second) I find another building (or 3) with more "learn to fly here" signs. I park and head inside. There is a counter with no one behind it. 3 guys in chairs talking about stuff which makes no sense to me at all. Lots of lingo I don't understand. Eventually, I decide to interrupt since I feel like a moron just standing here. "Hey, how does a guy learn to fly?" One of the walks around the counter. Apparently an employee, maybe. Even the grocery store has uniforms or name badges this is just a dude who may or may not work here and is fairly uninformed as he searches for some paper that says something about initial training.
Now, I totally agree that next part of this story involves old airplanes which look like the can fall apart at any minute and price tags which say that you can pay thousands of dollars for the privilege to learn how to spend thousands of more dollars. But the problem is that we rarely ever get to the part where we head to the air. You guys, correctly, point out that customer service is a foreign concept to flight training but let me tell you that marketing is even worse. There is a street fair every month in my home town. Five martial arts clubs and three gyms have booths. Where the heck are the flight schools? Since when does a business grow their customer base by sitting in a fortress hoping that some brave soul with lots of money will meander on over?

On Amy's ditching: I heard you mention this several times as I worked backwards through all the episodes. Every time, I yelled, "Where?!?" at my iPhone. For those of you out there, it's cleverly disguised under the title "Cherry Bomb" in Episode 68.

On the Hudson crash: I know that we are a long ways from seeing the end of this. Reading the (leaked) phone transcripts I have to say that even if the controller didn't directly neglect anything (which we shall see) he clearly didn't have his head in the game. He called up someone on a personal call to continue a conversation from earlier in the day. This means that just before he called her (when he was supposed to be looking for traffic) he was thinking about what he was going to say on that call and about the conversation earlier which he was about to continue. I don't necessarily agree with banning cell phones from ATC facilities but I do agree that personal calls on duty are out of the question. I think that any time a controller is spending time thinking about something other than controlling, we have a problem. If you were a pilot transitioning busy airspace, dealing with multiple controllers, and looking for potential conflicts, would you be talking with your passengers about a BBQ?


Return to “Episodes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests